Curse

kai4321 · Apr 02, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

I know there is like tons of builds here obviously and I am not asking if someone can just do all the work for me to find some but recently 2 weeks ago I bought this game and now I absolutely love it. I am lvl 20 and I am doing the Vabbi area Missions. I was thinking of builds and atm I use a kind of common and basic build which for me, works alright but I have been thinking of my secondary proffesion. My friends told me to go monk as it would be good but atm I use only 1 monk skill and that is rebirth. I dunno but I always thought secondary proffesions are meant so you can use the skills from them and I want to know what good builds use a mixture of both monk and dervish or if you guys could help me and tell me a way that I could add monk skills to my current build and tell me what to exchange for what.

My current build is: Vital Boon, Conviction, Mystic vigor, Zealous Renewal, Mystic Vigor, Twin Moon Swipe, Avatar Of Balthazar and Rebirth. I really am trying to find some kind of damage skill to remove twin moon swipe because I know it is good but I really don't like that it removes my enchantments although it hits twice and heals me so I dunno. Just help me by telling me if I could exchange anything and stuff.

WarKaster · Apr 02, 2007, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I ditch the the avatar and bring reaper's sweep as your elite (nice +damage and a deep would if you hit something under 50% health) and replace TMS with Mystic Sweep (this also has +damage for each enchantment on you although I believe it caps at +30). Twin moon sweep works well when you are using enchantments that cause AoE when they end like Heart of Fury (increased attack speed when activated and causes burning when it ends), when i do this i activate heart of fury then right as it starts to end i use twin moon sweep i get the effect of it by ending heart of fury and cause burning at the same time.

Ritual del Fuego · Apr 02, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

You can also try going as a /W and bring Wild Blow. You have mystic vigor listed twice so I'm not sure what is missing. If it wasn't what was missing, might I suggest [wiki]mystic regeneration[/wiki]. The three attack skills I tend to use most are [wiki]Wild Blow[/wiki], [wiki]Mystic Sweep[/wiki], and [wiki]victorious sweep[/wiki]. All are relatively cheap, are spammable for the most part, and do good amounts of damage and victorious gives health back. Having the ability to end stances helps alot. If you do use [wiki]victorious sweep[/wiki], I'm not sure how important [wiki]mystic vigor[/wiki] would be and you may be able to get rid of it. If you like avatars, giong off your build you could do something like:

[wiki]Conviction[/wiki]
[wiki]Mystic Regeneration[/wiki]
[wiki]Vital Boon[/wiki]
[wiki]Zealous Renewal[/wiki] of if you get a zealous scythe [wiki]mystic sweep[/wiki]
[wiki]Victorious Sweep[/wiki]
[wiki]Wild Blow[/wiki]
[wiki]Avatar of Balthazar[/wiki] or other avatar or [wiki]reaper's sweep[/wiki]
[wiki]Resurrection Signet[/wiki] or Sunspear Rebirth Signet

The thing about dervishes is that they are pretty self sufficient for general use in that they don't really need a secondary for the most part, unless you are trying to accomplish something specific like tank or something like that. Then there are other professions that offer buffs for certain tasks but aren't necessary for general use.

kai4321 · Apr 03, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Ahh, lol, just realised I put mystic vigor twice, one is meant to be mystic sweep. So could anyone tell me now if I replace avatar for reaper's sweep which I used to do what should I change for twin moon swipe. I dunno even if I should replace but cuz it removes one enchantment kinda annoying but sometimes need to use eitherwise I would do no damage. Does anyone think eremite's attack is good to replace it with?

Brian the Gladiator · Apr 03, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Kai, Dervishes generaly doen't use secondary professions all too often. Some of the Dervish builds that I know of use the following:

D/W - the build has one warrior skill and that is wild blow. They do this because of the fact that this melee attack always criticals. Because the range of damage on the scythe is (i think) 9-41 and because the skill always criticals, it will deal its maximum amount of damage.

D/Mo - Similarly to you, some people like to use this secondary because it allows them to use a hard res (ie rebirth). Also, many people will use mending touch on their dervish monk as a means to remove any sort of condition that is put on them.

I like to use a D/E however. The build uses friged armor, conjure frost, and mirror of ice (elite). [Note: this build requires factions skills] This build does a ton of damage as well as it has some nice armor buffing. You may want to try this build out and be sure to use an icy scythe for conjure frost. [This build can be found at guildwiki.org under the tested pve builds section]

Brian the Gladiator · Apr 03, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Kai, Dervishes generaly doen't use secondary professions all too often. Some of the Dervish builds that I know of use the following:

D/W - the build has one warrior skill and that is wild blow. They do this because of the fact that this melee attack always criticals. Because the range of damage on the scythe is (i think) 9-41 and because the skill always criticals, it will deal its maximum amount of damage.

D/Mo - Similarly to you, some people like to use this secondary because it allows them to use a hard res (ie rebirth). Also, many people will use mending touch on their dervish monk as a means to remove any sort of condition that is put on them.

I like to use a D/E however. The build uses friged armor, conjure frost, and mirror of ice (elite). [Note: this build requires factions skills] This build does a ton of damage as well as it has some nice armor buffing. You may want to try this build out and be sure to use an icy scythe for conjure frost. [This build can be found at guildwiki.org under the tested pve builds section]

Brian the Gladiator · Apr 03, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Kai, Dervishes generaly doen't use secondary professions all too often. Some of the Dervish builds that I know of use the following:

D/W - the build has one warrior skill and that is wild blow. They do this because of the fact that this melee attack always criticals. Because the range of damage on the scythe is (i think) 9-41 and because the skill always criticals, it will deal its maximum amount of damage.

D/Mo - Similarly to you, some people like to use this secondary because it allows them to use a hard res (ie rebirth). Also, many people will use mending touch on their dervish monk as a means to remove any sort of condition that is put on them.

I like to use a D/E however. The build uses friged armor, conjure frost, and mirror of ice (elite). [Note: this build requires factions skills] This build does a ton of damage as well as it has some nice armor buffing. You may want to try this build out and be sure to use an icy scythe for conjure frost. [This build can be found at guildwiki.org under the tested pve builds section]

Brian the Gladiator · Apr 03, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

^^ WOW! ^^ WTF HAPPENED! I did one of those quick posts and i hit save thingy and it took for flippen ever to load so i left the computer and when I came back it had posted it 3 times. thats weird, sry about that guys.

Ritual del Fuego · Apr 03, 2007, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai4321

Ahh, lol, just realised I put mystic vigor twice, one is meant to be mystic sweep. So could anyone tell me now if I replace avatar for reaper's sweep which I used to do what should I change for twin moon swipe. I dunno even if I should replace but cuz it removes one enchantment kinda annoying but sometimes need to use eitherwise I would do no damage. Does anyone think eremite's attack is good to replace it with?

I would suggest victorious sweep over twin moon sweep. Give plus damage and will heal you when the enemy's health is below yours, which happens often since you are using vital boon.

kai4321 · Apr 04, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Thanks for the helpful replies everyone

Servant of Kali · Apr 10, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai4321

Just help me by telling me if I could exchange anything and stuff.

General guideline for starters is - find some build which you like, and which others posted (if you evaluate it's good). Start from there, and modify the build to suit your playstyle (yes there is such a thing!).

If you want D/Mo build check this thread because im too lazy to type it again:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10137552

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warkaster

I ditch the the avatar and bring reaper's sweep as your elite

I dunno, i've seen a lot of people prefering Reapers Sweep. I was always totally against that skill. Personally, avatars rule in PvE, along with some other elites like Zealous Vow which can be fun. Reapers sweep is IMO underpowered Dervish PvE elite, and i would use it for fun purposes only (just like i can use Vow of Silence). Few months ago i posted my evaulation of Dervish elites in PvE, search it out if you want more details oppinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritual del Fuego

I would suggest victorious sweep over twin moon sweep.

I wouldnt. I've used Victorious Sweep for quite a long time, then i switched it for Crippling Sweep. Results were better. Granted, Victorious is a good skill, if it wasnt i wouldnt use it for that long. But i've played around with options and in practice Crippling is awesome. No annoying fleeing monsters, no need for run skill in PvE, -and- you have a crowd control skill. That means your squishies (monk, mesmer etc) wont get ganged.
Crippling + Chilling Victory are the only attack skills i use in PvE now, except when i go with Zealous Vow elite. BTW Chilling is overpowered in PvE

One more thing, as for the build you posted, a tip: you need Heart of Fury. Like, badly. It's the best IAS in the game, why not use it?

If you intend to do dmg with your Dervish HoF is a must.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Kai, Dervishes generaly doen't use secondary professions all too often

Actually, Dervishes often depend a lot on secondary profession. While not using a secondary is OK, my Dervish builds NEVER use just Dervish profession. They always work better with secondary. It goes for my D/Mo, D/A, D/P D/E and D/W.

In other words, i hate when i have Dervish in my team not having a secondary profession. At least D/W for Wild Blow which is still an awesome skill (sure it got nerfed a bit but i guess it's not THAT bad hah). It does critical which is cool on a scythe (high crit dmg) and removes stance which increases the killing speed fast in some areas (annoying PvE rangers with blocks etc).
Or, D/P for Remedy signet can be nice too.. not needed if your monk is taking care of everything, but in some game areas it's a cool skill to have IMO (not badly needed ofc). And last but not the least, yes (as mentioned), having a hard rez is also nice, and that alone can be a good reason to use secondary profession in PvE.

In short, there's a good reason to use secondary profession in PvE if only for one skill. In PvP secondaries are usually more important but that's another topic.

.Unanimous. · Apr 11, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Kai, Dervishes generaly doen't use secondary professions all too often. Some of the Dervish builds that I know of use the following:

D/W - the build has one warrior skill and that is wild blow. They do this because of the fact that this melee attack always criticals. Because the range of damage on the scythe is (i think) 9-41 and because the skill always criticals, it will deal its maximum amount of damage.

D/Mo - Similarly to you, some people like to use this secondary because it allows them to use a hard res (ie rebirth). Also, many people will use mending touch on their dervish monk as a means to remove any sort of condition that is put on them.

I like to use a D/E however. The build uses friged armor, conjure frost, and mirror of ice (elite). [Note: this build requires factions skills] This build does a ton of damage as well as it has some nice armor buffing. You may want to try this build out and be sure to use an icy scythe for conjure frost. [This build can be found at guildwiki.org under the tested pve builds section]

yeah... mirror of ice build is pretty sweet, but you'll need to ahve almost completed factions to get the elite.

Ritual del Fuego · Apr 11, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

I wouldnt. I've used Victorious Sweep for quite a long time, then i switched it for Crippling Sweep. Results were better. Granted, Victorious is a good skill, if it wasnt i wouldnt use it for that long. But i've played around with options and in practice Crippling is awesome. No annoying fleeing monsters, no need for run skill in PvE, -and- you have a crowd control skill. That means your squishies (monk, mesmer etc) wont get ganged.
Crippling + Chilling Victory are the only attack skills i use in PvE now, except when i go with Zealous Vow elite. BTW Chilling is overpowered in PvE

One more thing, as for the build you posted, a tip: you need Heart of Fury. Like, badly. It's the best IAS in the game, why not use it?

If you intend to do dmg with your Dervish HoF is a must.

Chilling = normal scythe damage + 20-80 damage every 10 seconds depending on if you time it right to hit when your enemy is below 50%.

Victorious Sweep = normal scythe damage +77.5 damage every 10 seconds plus you are healed for up to 200hp (averaged over 10 seconds) depending on if you have more health than the enemy.

Now for the chilling AOE damage, we have a couple options. if I hit 3 enemies with under 50% health, each would be hit for:

20+60+60+60 = 200
or 2 enemies under 50%
20+60+60 = 140
or 1 enemy under 50%
20+60=80

In my experience, I usually ended up with the last option more often than not where each enemy was hit with the 80 because it is difficult to time it so you hit all three adjacent enemies at a time they have less than 50% health, especially in higher level areas. Granted, if you have more than 3 baddies lined up together then chilling gives you the nice AOE damage to all adjacent foes, however, I find that this isn't usually the case. With victorious you are dealing the same "consistant" damage to up to three adjacents without having to wait for them to get to less than 50% to use it effectively. For me it just depends on what type of enemies you are going to be fighting and what area you are in. Personally I use both depending on the situation, but lean more towards victorious in most areas because of the consistancy and self healing.

The reason I compared victorious to chilling and not crippling as you suggested is because I consider Crippling Sweep to be more of a utility attack rather than a damage dealer and as such to compare the two wouldn't make a lot of sense. Don't get me wrong, I like crippling sweep and find it a must in most PvP situations. In PVE I guess it is personal preference. The OP is using Avatar of Balthazar which gives him a speed buff so fleeing enemies shouldn't be too big of a deal. I would rather bring an ele with ward against foes or some other movement control skills as "crowd control" rather than waste a spot on my dervish's bar, but that is just me.

As for Heart of Fury, personally I would take it in place of zealous renewal, however, I included zealous renewal because I was trying to fit the build as closely as I could to the OP's since that is what this thread is about.

All this being said, I guess this summarizes it with regards to the OP's build:

Attacks:
Victorious Sweep or Chilling Victory (depending on preference)
Mystic Sweep or crippling sweep or Heart of Fury
Wild Blow or crippling sweep or Heart of Fury

Utility:
Balthazar
Conviction
Vital Boon
Zealous Renewal or Heart of Fury
Rez

Obviously there is more things you can do, I am just summarizing what has been discussed so far if the OP wants to continue using Balth.

Servant of Kali · Apr 13, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritual del Fuego

Chilling = normal scythe damage + 20-80 damage every 10 seconds depending on if you time it right to hit when your enemy is below 50%.

Victorious Sweep = normal scythe damage +77.5 damage every 10 seconds plus you are healed for up to 200hp (averaged over 10 seconds) depending on if you have more health than the enemy.

1) Chilling Victory bonus works on enemies who have lower health than you, not 50%.
2) Your stats for Victorious are downright wrong and have no basis in reality nor math. Victorious has recharge of 4, and with IAS you need 1 second to execute the attack. Thus, for Chilling Victory recharge+hit, you need 11seconds. For 2 Victorious recharge+hit, you need 10sec. Almost the same. 77.5 is an overestimation of the dmg done by Victorious. It's roughly 65, or something along those lines. Heal is cca 170, and not 200hp. Also, this heal wont kick in if you already have maximum health, but when your health is low, and you need this bonus, practically it's not very likely that the enemy will have even lower health. So while in theory you're gaining cca 170 health every 10sec, in practice this is much much different.
3) You also forgot to mention that Chilling bonus dmg works even when you're blind, and goes through block (even if your original attack doesnt hit), which helps me a lot in both PvE and PvP. Another thing is that (more so in PvP than PvE), higher "spike" dmg from Chilling can sometimes suprisingly take down a player before monk can react. (to be clear, i dont have GvG in mind when im saying this..) Conditional bonus dmg from this skill is not a problem for me, considering that when i play Dervish health usually stays high (true not always) and thus having more health is not as big an issue.

Quote:

In my experience, I usually ended up with the last option more often than not where each enemy was hit with the 80 because it is difficult to time it so you hit all three adjacent enemies at a time they have less than 50% health, especially in higher level areas.

Wait, you're saying that you usually hit only 1 monster in PvE? I usually smash quite a lot of em

And you dont need to hit below 50%, just someone with less health than you. You dont even need to worry about block or blind. If target has less health than you, the AoE dmg will trigger on all adjacent monsters as long as the one you smacked has less health than you. The health of other monsters is irrelevant.

Quote:

The reason I compared victorious to chilling and not crippling as you suggested is because I consider Crippling Sweep to be more of a utility attack rather than a damage dealer and as such to compare the two wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Actually, Crippling Sweep is a dmg dealer

Less running means more hitting

I agree it's not as useful in PvE as it is in PvP, but i tried it, and IMO i quite liked it, and i think it's very useful in crowd control and dmg (because i dun have to chase). I didnt take details tests, it's just an impression i got after trying it, so i'd say it's more of a personal preferance.

If OP is using Balth then yea, Crippling is pointless. I also agree than the skills should be worked around the build he is trying to make... still i'd put in Heart of Fury somehow

Ritual del Fuego · Apr 13, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I think I was on crack or tired or something in my last post.

Let me clear some things up...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

1) Chilling Victory bonus works on enemies who have lower health than you, not 50%.
2) Your stats for Victorious are downright wrong and have no basis in reality nor math. Victorious has recharge of 4, and with IAS you need 1 second to execute the attack. Thus, for Chilling Victory recharge+hit, you need 11seconds. For 2 Victorious recharge+hit, you need 10sec. Almost the same. 77.5 is an overestimation of the dmg done by Victorious. It's roughly 65, or something along those lines. Heal is cca 170, and not 200hp. Also, this heal wont kick in if you already have maximum health, but when your health is low, and you need this bonus, practically it's not very likely that the enemy will have even lower health. So while in theory you're gaining cca 170 health every 10sec, in practice this is much much different.

Don't know why I was using the 50% or lower health. For some reason I think my mind was twisting reaper's and chilling.

My math was strictly going off of the fact that recharge is 10 seconds for chilling so I was taking 2.5*victorious recharge of 4 seconds, an oversimplification I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

3) You also forgot to mention that Chilling bonus dmg works even when you're blind, and goes through block (even if your original attack doesnt hit), which helps me a lot in both PvE and PvP.

I didn't mention it because I didn't know it. Are you sure about this? The skill description says "Whenever it hits a foe who has less Health than you". I would have to test it but it seems to me you need to make contact to get the bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Wait, you're saying that you usually hit only 1 monster in PvE? I usually smash quite a lot of em

And you dont need to hit below 50%, just someone with less health than you. You dont even need to worry about block or blind. If target has less health than you, the AoE dmg will trigger on all adjacent monsters as long as the one you smacked has less health than you. The health of other monsters is irrelevant.

This goes back to me mixing up reaper's and chilling. My point was that you don't usually hit more than one foe with less than 50% health. Since the requirement is only that you have more health, I can see where this would do more damage. I'm gioing to do more testing on it, maybe I dismissed it too quickly when I originally tried it. I still question that you don't need to make contact for the AOE bonus though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Actually, Crippling Sweep is a dmg dealer

Less running means more hitting

I agree it's not as useful in PvE as it is in PvP, but i tried it, and IMO i quite liked it, and i think it's very useful in crowd control and dmg (because i dun have to chase). I didnt take details tests, it's just an impression i got after trying it, so i'd say it's more of a personal preferance.

If OP is using Balth then yea, Crippling is pointless. I also agree than the skills should be worked around the build he is trying to make... still i'd put in Heart of Fury somehow

Agreed on the majority of this. I find crippling is good against the corsairs early in the game because they don't stop running around, even with the new AI update, but toward the back end of the game I didn't find that I needed to chase too many foes around and replaced it in my bar.

Servant of Kali · Apr 14, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritual del Fuego

I didn't mention it because I didn't know it. Are you sure about this? The skill description says "Whenever it hits a foe who has less Health than you". I would have to test it but it seems to me you need to make contact to get the bonus.

Yeah trust me, i use it all the time in RA to finish off annoying Shadowsong, or that Ranger who turned on block stance n tried to flee

The description is correct though, it simply says 'if target foe .... that foe n adjacent foes take xy cold dmg'. Or sth like that. It doesnt say "if this attack hits.."

Quote:

I find crippling is good against the corsairs early in the game because they don't stop running around, even with the new AI update, but toward the back end of the game I didn't find that I needed to chase too many foes around and replaced it in my bar.

Yup. Improvisation is the key

There is no need to use the same skills in every game area... besides it would be boring.

Ritual del Fuego · Apr 14, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

[wiki]chilling victory[/wiki]

The description is what it is...nice to know what happens in reality. Thanks for the tip...